How to Choose an Open-Source License

come into my session I was just saying I

know I'm up against if competition for

this timeslot I've talked to the other

presenters who are presenting at this

time and I'm just like ah it was bad

enough I was I forgot someone of you

acted yep I guess all three of you but

sorry I think there's a very important

topic

I had she's an open source license

especially related to Drupal because I

feel like most of the times as we know

the Drupal is open-source we kind of

just we don't think about what that

means and what open source by the

sissing means so it's an important thing

I think so I just a little bit about

myself where we have started I'm Mike

miles I'm from Boston Massachusetts I

got out here just escaping a nor'easter

well I didn't escape it I had a shovel

that morning all right so yeah you know

exactly I got don't go with a bunch of

snow and I'm here but I've been working

with Drupal for almost a decade now I'm

doing everything and the Sun when it

comes to Drupal theme development to

module development most the time now I

do large-scale architecture I'm also the

lead organizer for the Boston Drupal

meet up which means the first Tuesday of

every month

so if you're ever in Boston come on down

we have free pizza and beer that's not

why you should come but and you know I

have all the grandmaster stuff and all

that thing so good for me during the day

I am the senior technical solutions

manager for a digital marketing company

called genuine sorry digital marketing

agency

what genuine does is we're not a

true-blue shop but we the tagline is we

build agile brands so that they stay

culturally relevant and what that means

is that we we make brands easier to love

for their consumers and we really try to

figure out what's gonna reach people

authentically you know genuinely and how

we can help and we do that a lot of

different ways we have a whole server

for a whole full-service agency so we're

not Drupal shop so we have a digital

strategy department we have SEO and

content creators we have on-site video

and production also creative and design

and then development which is in three

areas net

front-end technology is like react and

SAS and all that fun stuff and node and

then the PHP team that I helpfully done

which we mainly do Google and that's

during the day and then at night I have

the podcast developing up which is

focused on the non-technical side of

being a developer so what that means is

we talked about things on the podcast

such as how to work on a team how to

give and receive feedback or the episode

that's coming out on Tuesday how to deal

with the phosphorus in drum so I've been

doing that for almost two years now

check it out I I think it's a good

podcast but I'm a little biased if you

want to know any more about me you find

me anywhere in the internet and like my

all 86 from Twitter

the Dinos who went into name of web

service I don't know it's social network

not Facebook though I'm not on Facebook

so what I'm going to talk about today is

three things I already said that you

didn't rupal we know it's open source we

don't care licensing but it's important

thing to to know about so I'm gonna

explain why you choose an open source

license for a project and what it

actually means I would explain what

those licenses are just to give a

general understanding and some

background and then how to choose the

right license for your project because

not all projects are the same even in

Drupal and stuff you're working on

related to Drupal you may want to do a

different open-source license and

there's a lot of them I'm double check

to make sure I spelt licensed correct I

did great before getting into that

though caveat I am NOT a lawyer I have

nowhere near a lawyer and intellectual

property law is big and complicated I

assume I think it is so anything I'm

going to tell you it's not legal advice

for when you put a license on a project

and then maybe get sued or you're trying

to sue somebody and just say well this

guy in the conference told me that

license is work this way

no this is general information it's not

legally advice so I am NOT a lawyer

can't stress that enough the other

statement I want to make before I really

get into it is something that I believe

or not even I just believe but something

that's fundamentally true is that code

is art how many people in the room are

developers all right almost like 75% of

the room beginning has a developer I can

say code is art because I love looking

at the things that I build and how

clever I can be and how clever other

people are and just like look this is

amazing

but from a legal sense code is actually

art it's creative works it's treated the

same way as if you're paint a picture or

write a book as soon as you create that

that piece of art that piece of creative

work you have a copyright claim on it or

you know in terms of code you and your

team have a copyright claim so if you

were and just put your code out there as

soon as you write it it's copyrighted

you own the rights to it what did that

copyright is basically the rules that

are set up but the laws they're

established they're different throughout

different countries that say who can

distribute that creative work so in

terms of software you have the code you

write you it's copyrighted you are the

only sole person or you and your team

with people who are allowed to say

person a person B you can have copy of

this code take it do what we want with

it or pay off the licensing fee to use

it however you want to distribute it

you're the only person who can do that

which means if you give your coach

person a on the top they cannot go ahead

and just give it to other people without

hope we see some other agreement with

you they're not allowed to do that

they'd be in some sort of legal breach

and you have the right to then sue them

for damages or for or what other

immigrant property stuff

and another layer so I don't know

lawyerly terms so copyright is basically

it's the legal right of the creator to

control how their software is

distributed you can't control how it's

used but you can control how it gets out

there so people can use it now what this

also means is when you write software

only you can define its use

in terms of you can't say once I give it

to you you can only use it in these surf

these places but you can determine

because you're the only person you can

work on it how it can be used so as

let's say this is a piece of GPS

software that we write and we're gonna

make it apply to boat navigation we

write very specifically for bill

navigation that's the only way it can be

used this means it's popular I didn't no

one else can help you with it

maybe your GPS software could be used

for autonomous vehicles maybe it can be

used for autonomous rocket ships so

maybe Tesla and SpaceX could use your

software it's copyrighted they have no

access to it unless they're gonna pay

you for it they probably won't pay for

it though but if you're not thinking

about these avenues you're not going to

be able to make your code as useful as

possible or your software as useful as

possible because your code is

copyrighted only you can create

improvements to it so we have our GPS

software for both navigation if someone

to come along and say I'm sorry if you

were to say I'm gonna have a fancy GUI

on top of it you can add to it you have

the right to do it you can change your

code however you want to but if someone

else comes along and says hey you know

what I can make your software ten times

more accurate can I give this to you

well one because they're writing a piece

of software they have five directly on

their software so it's kind of weird

because then they can't give it to you

because then if their code is added to

your contrary projects who then owns the

copyright for the whole thing right

where does their add-on stop in your

original code begin becomes this whole

crazy legal mishmash in it so you

basically can't do it

so that that's what happens when you

write software that's the copyright

rules or when the country gives you but

I always go back and think you know why

do we write software this is more of a

existential question I guess you know

for the developers in the room why do we

write code I believe that we write code

because we want to solve the world's

problems every developer seeks out they

see a problem they want to create a

solution they do it with code we want to

serve the whole world's problems but as

individual developers we don't have

certain viewpoints we can only approach

things from our experience in one way

that may not be in a way to solve

problems for other people so open

sourcing your software opens it up to

the world and that's what we're going to

do we want to write code to solve

problems and solve many problems as

possible we need people to tell us what

the problems are and help us use our

software to solve those that's why you

do open source software now open source

licenses allow you to open source open

source software this is not removing

your copyright claim it is adjusting

your copyrights so that others can

freely use your software modify it share

it and add to it well you still get all

the protections that come when writing

your software you yours you can still

say how can be distributed you can say

how can we add it on to but people don't

have to worry that they can't contribute

to a project because if you just put

your software out there without any sort

of license at all people are going to

assume it's copyrighted its proprietary

they can't do anything with it

now there's the naive thought not really

in the Drupal community since we work

with mobile surf product but that open

source equals free and this is not true

we all know this we work with open

source software every day but we all

make money well I assume most of us make

money and the way this works is because

yes if you release software with an

open-source license saying hey other

people can get the copy of the source

code they can use it modify it you can't

really bar them from taking it for free

but you can then offer services that

either build open-source software you

can have services around using open

source software if you work at an agency

like I do you know we build for clients

with open source tools and then we sell

our expertise for building those putting

those pieces together

so there's still plenty of ways to make

money as a developer as an agency with

open source okay now what an open source

license does for your creative work for

your code is okay you still have that

copyright claim but if you open source

he removes like the proprietary nests of

your code and you allow for derivatives

so if derivative is Bakley we have our

GPS software sure for ships built the

source did others can access it someone

create a derivative of it or a fork if

you're used to get up terminology or

fork they can make Daryll modifications

and they can apply it to autonomous

vehicles right someone else can take it

they have the right to change it and

they can apply to a different industry

for Thomas rocket ships

so again yay Tesla and SpaceX are using

our software that's great a derivative

is just an alteration or extension of a

piece of software

when you provide an open-source license

it informs people that you are about

their life nature of is open code it

also means an example for group life

triad Google example and it's hard to

see on the screen but googling backdrop

is a great example of a derivative just

about two years ago when jewel was just

a bunch of pushover too late with him

with a whole bunch of changes in the

structure of things there is a community

a group in the communities we like the

way Drupal 7 is we were afraid that

people are going to really gravitate to

the new changes in Drupal 8 or we want

to protect people who want to keep going

with 207 so they created a derivative of

Drupal they called it backdrop there's a

whole new community out there and they

will do that Google's open source google

says anyone who wants this can take it

make a copy of it and change it so now

there's this whole backdrop community

and they are running doing their own

thing they've since diverged from Drupal

but they're still tied to Google because

of the licensing which I'll get into in

a little bit

I don't know title it's alright so if

you're open sourcing your software and

you remove your proprietary claim to it

I used to have a copyright again what

that allows you do is to get

improvements from the world from other

developers so simply every interface now

that person comes along that says hey I

want to give you this this code that

will make your software ten times better

great no problem you can you can add it

on there's some little complications

here well get into in a little bit about

how that works someone else will come

along with a different addition to say

hey this will make this work even better

someone else can come along say this

will make it even better because you

open source that people know they can

contribute to it they can add on to it

they can build stuff that works with

your software and they don't have to

worry about you going after that and

suing them for doing that example in

Drupal is control used to doing or we

all know is the derivative trip space

people contributing caches google core

people producing themes to add to Drupal

and make available for others people

writing modules and providing modules to

Drupal that can get merged into core

like say the view is monthly right

because to a blos open source it tells

people you can contribute to this and

you can add on to it and it makes Drupal

better for everybody so you say this is

great I want people to use my software I

want people to add on to it why do I

even need a license at all can I just

say here's my software I have no

proprietary change to it

use it at your own will yes you can it's

called the unlicensed it's as close as

you can get it in terms of software

saying this is the public domain

it basically strips all your copyright

claims of your software but you may want

to do but there's some complications in

there where public domain and unlicensed

saying is very different around the

world and what that means and what that

allows it also means because you remove

your country of names you don't get

credit for the hard work you did and if

you're a developer you like getting

credit for the work you do because you

don't get it a lot of the time because

it's behind the scenes so you could do

an unlicensed but why not use all those

websites for soccer

seven unlicensed doing so gives you some

protections from just on licensing so we

have our software it's open source we

apply we can take our open source

software and we can put it in a

distribution or a package this package

we can make proprietary we can close

source to have you don't have to give

that out in some certain circumstances

and then we can sell that package to the

voting industry so we can have our

general GPS software package it a nice

little thing a GPS for boats and we sell

that package that still provides

somebody to make a derivative of our dps

software and they can apply it over to

the cars someone else can take it and

that's fine someone else could take it

and what if they wanted to make

derivatives put our software in a

package that then they make proprietary

and they want to then sell it to the

boating industry if you have unlicensed

your software

and there's nothing to stop anyone from

doing that you you're inviting

competition which you may want to do but

you can provide with open-source license

you can say anyone can use this under

these conditions you can protect your

individual use of that software ok

companies can do this on Facebook which

I'll get into they provide patent claims

that say you can use our software for

free or whatever you want except for

anything that goes after our patented

proprietary work and that allows you to

to differentiate yourself from the

others now open-source licenses there's

a lot of them how would you know which

ones to use well there's this company

that's not company organization called

the open source initiative they've been

around since 1998 and all they do are

evaluate licenses and say yes you can

claim to be an open-source license or no

you cannot because you do not need hard

conditions and their criteria is all

about protecting the rights of the

creator of the work and the rights of

the people who are going to use that

open-source software they have a lot of

criteria they use I'm gonna highlight a

couple of them number one an open-source

license must be free you can't say hey

here's my shiny open-source license you

can give to your projects if you pay me

to use it it doesn't it doesn't work

that way I don't know I'm actually

someone tried to do that last year in

the Drupal community they try to say hey

for a protection you guys should use my

license and pay me for it I don't know

what that person is trained to do right

most open-source licenses have a clause

that say you must require you must

provide access to the source code so you

have an open-source license the clause

says we must make the compiled code and

the on compiled code if you're doing

apart language is available for anyone

who wants it

and then the criteria that it must allow

for the creations of altar works for

derivatives and for add-ons these are

only the the three top criteria guess

this yeah the three top right here that

every license has that's open source as

well as the most important a clause

about providing attribution to the

originator the originator of the work so

anyone Hey as open source license this

clause that says you must give credit

where credit's due in your project that

uses this license now there's two types

of open source licenses there's a lot

licensed out there there's two main

types first is what's known as

permissive license this is as close as

you can get to an unlicensed as well

without being an unlicensed without

being in the public domain

some permissive licenses are so basic

they just have that clause about giving

attributions they they're very simple

very basic they come usually with a

thing that you use this code at your own

restaurant is and you can't come after

me and say hey your code broke my

project well it's open source you can't

get me don't give me credit for breaking

it but just give me credit for using it

and then there's copyleft licenses which

is play on the term copyright it

basically uses the rules around

copyright to negate copyright they add

additional clauses on top of permissive

licenses such as patent clauses or

really strict ways on how a piece of

software can be used in the situation's

industry

so Brady's down a little bit further

permissive licenses work a little bit

like this so we have our software or GPS

software other thing and we put a

permissive license on it like the MIT

license someone can take our software

and make a derivative of it and risk it

because the permissive license says you

have to give me credit for it that

person can apply a whole different

license to their software to their

derivative they can take yours change it

slap a different type of license on it

and it's all good it's fine it's legal

to do someone else can have an add-on

for your project and they can apply a

different licenses or add-on to sit on

top of yours and they can do that

no these licenses have to kind of work

together but they can be different they

can have different causes different

patent claims whatnot but the permissive

license you can still take your open

source software you can put it to your

proprietary package and that's fine

you're allowed to do that

permissive license basically just

protects the the originators credit but

it does not put in any restrictions on

add-ons distributions or derivatives

that they have to use the same license

this is not the case in Drupal I'm gonna

get to in a moment but this is in the

case say for I want to say jQuery but I

haven't looked at the license but I

would imagine like JavaScript frameworks

probably work more with permissive

license

copyleft license is a little more strict

so you have your software you put a

copyleft license on it like the most

widely known and the original

open-source license the GPL license

let's say and what copyleft licenses say

is that if someone creates a derivative

they must use the same exact license as

the original work

if someone creates an add-on then add-on

must use the same exact license as the

original work someone creates in ads

that project that code to a distribution

that distribution must use the same

exact license as the original work it

perpetuates keeping things open and free

open source to prevent anyone from

locking you down

right exactly it prevents anyone from

locking it down and for using it for

their own proprietary games there still

ways you can use it and proprietary code

that again I'm a lawyer so I can't tell

you all the specifics of that

now copyleft licenses actually fall into

two subtypes I mean it actually it's

really like a spectrum but there's too

many types there's weak copy left which

we copyleft have causes that just

protects derivatives and add-ons they

say if you alter my code or if you want

to add to my code you have to use the

same license this is like the LGPL

the lesser general whatever they think

acronym is I know so that's we copy that

then there's strong copy left which

covers all three scenarios saying no

matter how this software is going to use

that use has to have the same exact

license it has to be copy West covers

all three scenarios and this is what

Drupal uses Drupal uses the GPL license

which is the most strong copyleft

license you have and if anything that

uses Drupal itself must be copyleft

licenses that is to show some of the

popular OSI approved license a strong

copy that get the GPL license and clips

we copy left in the LGPL or the Zillo

licensed and permitted that just say

give me credit where credit's do this

permit might be in a passion each one of

these are slightly different from each

other they they have different clauses

they have slight changes that say how

software can be used and how they

protect the users and the originators

and the limitations around the software

these are just six of like 80

open-source licenses they are available

so how do you decide what type of

license to use in your open-source

project it's really not that hard

there's actually only four questions you

have to ask yourself to determine it

question number one what licenses are

already in use in your software

yeah yes

but if if you have software you're just

like I'm gonna write everything from

scratch they need to choose whatever

license you want but if you say hey

there's this library that already

handles the site logging I'm just gonna

pull that in my project well what

license is that software have are they

strong copyleft and so then if you want

to use them you have to be strong

population if they're permissive and you

have more flexibility use if they're

proprietary licenses then why would you

even want to want to use them in your

open source project so it's important to

pay attention because if you don't you

pull project in and then you don't agree

to their licensing terms you're in

violation you open yourself to legal

issues so check the licenses are used in

any other software in our libraries util

to then one thing that people always

overlook is what are the Terms of

Service where my software has hosted if

you want to distribute your code make it

open source which means you want to give

it out what you can write code for

yourself it's open source no we didn't

get it

I guess it's open source to you I guess

so you can put your code somewhere if

you you say get up or google.org or if

your wordpress developer a put on

WordPress or however you those birthdays

they all turn to service that dictate

rules around what licensing or how your

software has to work for example the

term services on github if you have cota

get up says any code oh so I get a must

allow for the creation of Forks for a

during the creation of derivatives now

you can make private derivatives it only

gives access to start people but as soon

as you give someone access to your code

on github you cannot prevent them from

making a copy of it

that's what the term service say you

have to allow for so you couldn't put

code on github that has a license that

says you can't create derivative if you

host your code on github elorg

tube works as anything that's so showing

us must follow our rules for getting

access to the code and because the way

Trouville is its GPL you have to use the

GPL license so we're gonna put your code

well the rules are in place that dictate

what license you have to use finally

something you can kind of control is

with your software do you want

derivatives additions and distributions

to have to use the same exact licenses

you if you do then you want to pop your

left license if you care about how your

software's going to be used you want to

have your left license if you don't care

if you're like I just want credit and I

want people to use my software

permissive license and actually you

don't have to ask yourself three

questions you're good

if you do this on a copyleft and ask

yourself can others use my software in

there over time proprietary works do I

care if they're anything they get

monetary gains and they put my software

and closed source if you say sure people

can do that that's fine

we copy left because you want to protect

against derivatives and add-ons but you

don't care if it gets ahead into a

distribution but if you're like no no

matter what open source all the way a

baby of a strong hive laughter the way

to go

so asking your for it so these four

questions it's like a decision tree you

can figure out what type of license you

want strong copy left we call a

permissive great might be saying but

come on what license specifically should

I use my project help me I can't

that takes some self investigation um

there are a lot of licenses out there

there's over 80 there's 80 plus well

what I can share with you are some

guidelines person for most user license

has been approved by the US I nice a 98

they've been reviewing licenses to make

sure they protect everybody which is

that software you could go to the dark

web and you can be like oh I found a

license here but unless you're like you

know legalese you may be screwing

yourself over

read the license before you use it now

this could be hard licenses are not the

most really thing if you're stuck with

no power because of a nor'easter and you

happen to have licenses on your computer

that has plenty of batteries shirt you

know sit by the fire enjoy it

there's a great website called TLDR

legal comm which has all the licenses

you can imagine and they translate it

into basic English it's a good resource

yeah it's a really great resource they

also do it for some terms of services

for websites do and they just say here's

what it protects here would allows

here's what it doesn't protect protect

against they also claim they're not

legal services providing a better way

for you that I just

information so if you're deciding on

using a specific license read it to make

sure you understand what the clauses and

the implications of elements are and

then do not change your license once

you've released your software as soon as

you put open-source software out there

on the web for others to use and

distribute you have to assume someone

made a copy of it they already made this

trip distribution or sorry a derivative

and if you were to say I'm gonna put a

permissive license on my software put it

out there and then someone makes a copy

and then you say actually I'm going to

change it to be GPL then that person

made a copy is there not in compliance

for devices and then who can sue who

what it's all this crazy stuff now what

you can do is create a new release of

your software and change the license

then famous example from last year

Facebook has react j/s they released it

under the I think it was the BSD license

with a I don't know if it was custom but

with a patent claim on it that basically

said if you use root reveal no sorry

yaks

you can't do Facebook for any reason

ever you can't claim any copyright

infringement from Facebook and people

are like whoa maybe they couldn't use it

for that reason

right right people are like whoa that's

Facebook does a lot of stuff they have

lot more resources than us and I can't

claim any patent infringement against

them ever ever and like a perpetuity I

don't know about that so like the

WordPress community WordPress was

actually building react into WordPress

and they were like no we're gonna drop

support for reactive right so all these

web tools were we're dropping support

and Facebook's was like no no no we want

you to use our stuff so they actually

created a new release of react and they

they got rid of that path theme and they

they actually made it they added

permissive license and everyone's like

cool we're gonna we're gonna adopt react

it's like yes people are yeah okay for

them it's great for everybody so you

can't change your license once you

release it but when you create a new

relations license okay

okay Mike but come on we're at a dribble

conference what license specifically

should I use in my Trouville projects at

home if I'm building websites with

Drupal build a product we do pull up on

building modules or themes or patches

come on what license should I use well

go back to that first question and

someone in the audience already imagine

us what licenses are already used in my

software you're building some for Drupal

Drupal uses the GPL 2.0 or higher

license which state which is a strong

copyleft license which means anything

you build for drupal must have the GPL

license on it now GQ no way I understand

it covers that thing directly but if you

were to use other libraries in your

project or libraries we're using other

libraries they could have different

licenses somehow but your thing that's

contributing to Drupal have to use the

same license is Drupal

now what if you don't do that what's

gonna happen to you

probably not nothing really but you know

why put yourself in that predicament

we're clients that you write code for

so to recap

I think we already know this because

we're two plus but your open source

projects can change the world if you

have high fairy code you can only change

the world so much because you only have

your perspective it's open source when

you do open source it allows your

software to be freely used modified and

shared but it only does that when you

apply an open source license if you

don't apply license people are going to

assume is private Airy you ever heard of

soom that they can't use it or doing it

well with it and you don't want that you

want people to use your software and

then select the right open source

license for your project by asking the

right questions what other libraries are

using what are their licenses where am I

going to host my code what are the rules

around there do I care how people use my

software and do I really care if they

use a proprietary purposes they'll give

you the decisions to know if you use

strong title applique on that for

permissive and then you can go from

there so yeah that's what I have for

this so I want to let some resources

first bit leader here mid-1800s L is

this presentation it's on Google slides

which I haven't read the Trump service

but it's kind of I think it's open

source right so you can make a

derivative of it if you want to do open

source not org is the open source

initiatives website check them out

they have listing of all the open source

licenses and then you can want to read

them you can go on the bottom right

there at the ldr legal comm to read them

and understand them choose a license

calm is a fun tool by github which

reduces the number of questions you have

to ask it gives you basically helps you

make decision what license you

it pretty much asked you what are you

thinking of using here are three

recommendations

my bad Bentley link Drupal like Drupal

hell I see that's a link to Drupal gorgs

licensing page which tells you the rules

and regulations around Drupal projects

and then plug for my podcast developing

up again the non patent side the

developer you upset on Tuesday though

imposter syndrome and then finally come

visit these ghosts I'm from Boston we

have a lot of conferences coming up in

the triple space nerd summit next

weekend that's probably a little too

late for you to book a fight well but

from New York and make the drive I drove

to New York you can a couple weeks ago

what's that Google Delphia no that's

true one day Google conference in

Philadelphia yeah yeah I'm from

Baltimore

alright so so there you go i I don't

know too much about this I just I was

coming up and they're still accepting

session submissions

it's on Friday but I know a lot of

companies in Philadelphia it's a really

yeah

design for Drupal which is the only

front-end design specific Drupal

conference that I know of there we're

celebrating our 10th year it's in June

that's in Boston

yeah it's a really good it's at the MIT

SATA Center it goes back yeah

yeah it's really fun conference it's a

great time to be in the city I'm in net

camp which I am one of the organizers of

which is a jewel camp we have to settle

on the date but it's November ish so

keep your eyes out for that that's also

a fun one to come to with that we have

some time for questions if you have any

if not you can give me up on Twitter

about anything new pool or tech related

but then before any questions may have I

asked for applause thank you

for all people standing in the back I

appreciate you not yeah I'm sorry there

were no chairs available okay are there

any questions

what license my coat oh all right

question on what happens if I don't put

a license on my coat at all and then

publish Italy and the publish it say you

put your code on github you don't relax

on it well one because you put it up on

github

people can assume they can make

derivative of it about you but if you

don't have any license specifically

called out people have to assume it's

your proprietary code but they're not

allowed to make copies of it or add to

it is that going to stop people from

doing it no people are going to copy it

but legally you could if you find

someone using your code like uh-huh

this is an open source I'm gonna see you

I'm just starting to put it on get off

the truck yeah yeah know what I bet

there I bet there are code trolls out

there who do that I'm sure there was

yeah the line and an attempted flight

nobody used a lot of tools to build

open-source tools to build our tools yep

so and and we call out to different

api's and things like that so like with

a Drupal module is pretty clear

direction we're invading our code

directly within the context of about

like where we're calling an API or maybe

even using a different programming

languages like that Indies or their

field lines in terms of where the

license ends of our new license

yeah so the question was are there

caroline's we're like the license ends

where it begins what it covers

yeah and in your question you asked

about you know what if we connect to an

API that's a great example they actually

talked about this on the open source

licensing website I think they talked

about it where that's a great way to get

around restriction stay for the GPL so

if you're building to a module and you

want to use data from a typewriter

system or you want to write code a

proprietary way you just build the API

connector and then what you're getting

is the data that that open source code

and I've closed those core code

generates not the code itself the code

itself that's what's protected but

what's generated from it is not so again

if you use open source tools for

generating other code that code you

generate is pretty if the production of

that is not necessarily copyrighted or

as following the same ways it's

copyrighted it's not fucking the same

license so that's great way if you're

like I really want to use this library

for the code that this library produces

I can't connect to it directly see if

you compare a way to do with to make

guys because if you're interacting with

code but you're not pulling

so I think it's again not a lawyer but

it extends to if you're adding code to

your project directly that's where the

licensing applies if you're just making

calls out to other services your license

doesn't carry through those calls users

they're just right you're just a user of

that same thing if you're like I don't

want to open-source my software from one

others the benefit from it I produce

make guy that people can call to and

they can get the results of what you're

going down for example it's a good

question yeah I'll set okay other place

to see research on this ugly package

management please oh restrictions on

package management tools I'm gonna say

there probably are because those package

management tools themselves are code

although I won't write like if I publish

on that packages ah do I have those

certain license I would assume that if

you put some my packages I guarantee you

pad just has a page somewhere about

their licensing policy because your code

actually your code doesn't really get

hosted on packages just get past well

you produce something that's just a

fun-packed just just

yeah just adjacent file so I'm sure they

have rules that say they must because

putting on packages you're saying how to

beep and download this without telling

me so they're definitely comments on

that and say well your code has to allow

it again you can't be a code troll I bet

there are

I bet any place any service where they

say hey put your coat on us they have

rules around what licensing or at least

some sort of restrictions that you have

to follow guidelines good question all

right thank you everybody for coming I

know I'll stop the recording and then

I'll talk by everybody at all